“Odin’s men rushed forwards without armour, were as mad as dogs or wolves, bit their shields, and were strong as bears or wild oxen, and killed people at a blow, but neither fire nor iron told upon them.
I think the pop culture emphasis on brutality is a form of over-compensation. Most men spend their lives (from a very early age) in one appalling institution after another, where discipline is maintained through capricious attacks, collective punishments and humiliation. At some point in the process, they're presented with heroes who are too nasty to be messed with. Once the patterns are established, it's not easy to break that conditioning.
I could make an argument the American male has been emasculated.
A few of us are trying to redefine the conversation. For a long time all of the focus of those who want change has been on treating masculinity as toxic. Many men have internalized that. If we want to change society we need more, a lot more, tonic masculinity.
"But masculinist culture is a culture of violence and conformity very few men have the inner strength to resist."
There is much that is celebrated about masculine culture that is not healthy. There is some that is not healthy and not celebrated. There is some that is healthy and also celebrated. There is much that is healthy and not celebrated. Some men and women have been in the habit of denigrating all of it. Having read Starhawk's Fifth Sacred Thing, I am not inclined to disagree with her necessarily, but my ideal in the midwest is different than California.
I am masculine, but not very violent and not much of a conformist.
I used to teach my high school junior boys that there was a third option in addition to wimp or barbarian. A gentleman, a knight. Where masculine strength is used to defend the weak.
Interesting this comes up now. I was just thinking about the "everyone" thing that seems to be happening. My line of thought was sparked by a comment made on another 'Stack a few days back.
"It seems everyone has a bit of Rainman in them"
My husband reads "Everyone has tics". The podcast I listened to last night "Everyone has an addiction to something".
These aren't helpful comments. The comment on Rainman was in reply to the ridiculously broad autism spectrum...also not helpful.
"Everyone" being this way or that really deflects from actual pathology, and minimizes it.
Are all men berserk? I don't think so, although they may play it on television. I do think we are in for a few years of bizarre behaviours due, in part, to the weirdness of the past three years piled on to increasing electronic isolation which followed a trend of diminishing healthy masculinity
Yes. Many men have lost their way for many reasons.
For example (and unfortunately I cannot cite this), some years back, someone tried to do a study on the effects of pornography on young men. Among 14 year-olds, they couldn't find a control group. So I guess that's another "everyone"!
Yes, but the real dangerous men are billionaires like Gates, Bezos, Schwab. None of whom would find himself anywhere near physical danger.
Robert Bly (RIP) wrote Iron Man on this very issue. I don't pretend to know how men react to that book, but it definitely resonated with me as to the loss of a certain kind of strong masculinity.
As an aside, the Maenads/Bacchantes, women who were part of a Dionysis cult, would go on trance fueled rampages where they'd tear apart anyone they came across, human or non-human. the modern day idea of women really comes from the Victorian age, and, before that, the witch hunts (see Silvia Federici). Women were brutally forced into a passive role. That trauma, I think, still is with us.
Yep, the Parasite Class™ manipulates "regular" men into performing a distorted form of manhood so that they (the predators) look more civilized in their suits and ties.
Thanks, Susan. I only looked at the article's title for now but will check it out tomorrow.
Just read it. I'm not stunned but I am speechless.
I hadn't thought about Westerns in this way but, as I ponder your comment, I feel in agreement!
indeed. I like the darker types too lol. But right now I have sworn off men and have a dog
I hear you, Paul. There are so many earthly reasons to feel righteous rage.
dang thanks wrcu2, chop chop....from Poortland OR
I think the pop culture emphasis on brutality is a form of over-compensation. Most men spend their lives (from a very early age) in one appalling institution after another, where discipline is maintained through capricious attacks, collective punishments and humiliation. At some point in the process, they're presented with heroes who are too nasty to be messed with. Once the patterns are established, it's not easy to break that conditioning.
Indeed...these "heroes" are set up to be virtually irrresistible.
It's an effective way to create cannon-fodder.
I could make an argument the American male has been emasculated.
A few of us are trying to redefine the conversation. For a long time all of the focus of those who want change has been on treating masculinity as toxic. Many men have internalized that. If we want to change society we need more, a lot more, tonic masculinity.
https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/tonic-masculinity-and-the-mad-hatter
"But masculinist culture is a culture of violence and conformity very few men have the inner strength to resist."
There is much that is celebrated about masculine culture that is not healthy. There is some that is not healthy and not celebrated. There is some that is healthy and also celebrated. There is much that is healthy and not celebrated. Some men and women have been in the habit of denigrating all of it. Having read Starhawk's Fifth Sacred Thing, I am not inclined to disagree with her necessarily, but my ideal in the midwest is different than California.
I am masculine, but not very violent and not much of a conformist.
I used to teach my high school junior boys that there was a third option in addition to wimp or barbarian. A gentleman, a knight. Where masculine strength is used to defend the weak.
Amen.
Interesting this comes up now. I was just thinking about the "everyone" thing that seems to be happening. My line of thought was sparked by a comment made on another 'Stack a few days back.
"It seems everyone has a bit of Rainman in them"
My husband reads "Everyone has tics". The podcast I listened to last night "Everyone has an addiction to something".
These aren't helpful comments. The comment on Rainman was in reply to the ridiculously broad autism spectrum...also not helpful.
"Everyone" being this way or that really deflects from actual pathology, and minimizes it.
Are all men berserk? I don't think so, although they may play it on television. I do think we are in for a few years of bizarre behaviours due, in part, to the weirdness of the past three years piled on to increasing electronic isolation which followed a trend of diminishing healthy masculinity
I agree. I think it's part of the normalization of pathology
I hear you, Jaye, and I was not aiming to add to the "everyone" vibe. That said, biolent crime statistics tell a story of misguided masculinity.
Yes. Many men have lost their way for many reasons.
For example (and unfortunately I cannot cite this), some years back, someone tried to do a study on the effects of pornography on young men. Among 14 year-olds, they couldn't find a control group. So I guess that's another "everyone"!
Do we even know what our baseline is?
Sorry. Rambling. I appreciate the opportunity
You have nothing to apologize, Jaye! Your thoughts are welcome here.
Yes, but the real dangerous men are billionaires like Gates, Bezos, Schwab. None of whom would find himself anywhere near physical danger.
Robert Bly (RIP) wrote Iron Man on this very issue. I don't pretend to know how men react to that book, but it definitely resonated with me as to the loss of a certain kind of strong masculinity.
As an aside, the Maenads/Bacchantes, women who were part of a Dionysis cult, would go on trance fueled rampages where they'd tear apart anyone they came across, human or non-human. the modern day idea of women really comes from the Victorian age, and, before that, the witch hunts (see Silvia Federici). Women were brutally forced into a passive role. That trauma, I think, still is with us.
Yep, the Parasite Class™ manipulates "regular" men into performing a distorted form of manhood so that they (the predators) look more civilized in their suits and ties.