None of our guys were saved. The combat against the Japanese was all but over. This was a big "fuck you" to Japan using its civilians. Unconscionable no matter how you slice it.
I am referring 1. To the fact that all civilian centers were leafleted before bombing so that citizens could leave and 2. It was a terribly difficult call given what the Japanese were prepared to do and how many of our guys would have been killed. Don’t forget what the Japanese did in Korea and China. I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the president’s shoes.
Leafletting before committing a war crime doesn't change it from being a war crime. Plus, the U.S. bombed countless Japanese cities so it's not realistic to blame civilians for not leaving. Where would they go? It was mass murder via carpet fire-bombing.
As for the estimates of how many U.S. soldiers would've died in an invasion of Japan, the numbers were highly exaggerated and kept climbing in post-war reporting. I've written about this before.
And yes, of course, Japan committed atrocities (I strongly mentioned that at the end of the article) but how does a country then commit atrocities in return while calling itself the "greatest generation" fighting a "good war"?
I've been to Japan a couple of times in August to commemorate the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the fire-bombing of Tokyo is horrendous. This is what I loathe about the slogan MAGA---when was America ever great? For 10 minutes in the late 40s???? Still not sure about that.
The myth of the "good war" is hard to overcome. I can understand why people would shy away from an accurate accounting. Any war is ugly and the political calculations that precede one are even uglier—malice aforethought. Sheltered people don't want to think ill of their leaders (rulers). I've listened to quite a few. They feel threatened when horrible realities are exposed. They can get quite melodramatic about it, i.e. "I couldn't go on with life if I believed that!". The mendacity and viciousness of their own governments make them feel painfully vulnerable. That's what's hard to live with.
Fun fact: Just after WWII ended, most of the planet - including Americans - thought (correctly) that the Russians had won the war. Now, most people in the west believe that the US won it. We came in at the end of the 4th quarter and then proceeded to take credit for defeating Germany. And the myth just grew and grew.
And not many years later, these heros would come up with brilliant ideas such as "McNamara's 100,000". As the mother of a disabled son, that concept makes me weep...
There never was a greatest generation. Just people.
Thank you, TL, and yes...Vonnegut actually survived the Dresden bombing!
Something I shared last month: https://mickeyz.substack.com/p/reminder-the-greatest-generation
👍
Don’t forget, they were warned. And how many of our guys were saved?
Yep, in the case of Nagasaki, the leaflets arrived *after* the bombing.
Are you referring to Pearl Harbor?
None of our guys were saved. The combat against the Japanese was all but over. This was a big "fuck you" to Japan using its civilians. Unconscionable no matter how you slice it.
I am referring 1. To the fact that all civilian centers were leafleted before bombing so that citizens could leave and 2. It was a terribly difficult call given what the Japanese were prepared to do and how many of our guys would have been killed. Don’t forget what the Japanese did in Korea and China. I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the president’s shoes.
Leafletting before committing a war crime doesn't change it from being a war crime. Plus, the U.S. bombed countless Japanese cities so it's not realistic to blame civilians for not leaving. Where would they go? It was mass murder via carpet fire-bombing.
As for the estimates of how many U.S. soldiers would've died in an invasion of Japan, the numbers were highly exaggerated and kept climbing in post-war reporting. I've written about this before.
And yes, of course, Japan committed atrocities (I strongly mentioned that at the end of the article) but how does a country then commit atrocities in return while calling itself the "greatest generation" fighting a "good war"?
All I know is war is hell and there are intelligent and good people on both sides.
E.g. https://www.prageru.com/video/was-it-wrong-to-drop-the-atom-bomb-on-japan
Oh sure, just drop a leaflet, and everyone will flee the city - lol.
I've been to Japan a couple of times in August to commemorate the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the fire-bombing of Tokyo is horrendous. This is what I loathe about the slogan MAGA---when was America ever great? For 10 minutes in the late 40s???? Still not sure about that.
Bingo! I react the same way when people talk about "taking the country back." Um...when did we have it?
The myth of the "good war" is hard to overcome. I can understand why people would shy away from an accurate accounting. Any war is ugly and the political calculations that precede one are even uglier—malice aforethought. Sheltered people don't want to think ill of their leaders (rulers). I've listened to quite a few. They feel threatened when horrible realities are exposed. They can get quite melodramatic about it, i.e. "I couldn't go on with life if I believed that!". The mendacity and viciousness of their own governments make them feel painfully vulnerable. That's what's hard to live with.
Thank you for such an eloquent take, James. Much appreciated.
And yeah...if I only had a dollar for every time someone told me: "I couldn't go on with life if I believed that!"
It seems to be a standard reply! What gets me most is the way it treats cultivated fragility and the inability to reassess as virtues.
Precisely. From where I'm standing, I feel like I couldn't go on with life if I WASN'T learning more each day!
Makes me want to barf, thinking of that.
😕
Fun fact: Just after WWII ended, most of the planet - including Americans - thought (correctly) that the Russians had won the war. Now, most people in the west believe that the US won it. We came in at the end of the 4th quarter and then proceeded to take credit for defeating Germany. And the myth just grew and grew.
Yep! By the time of the D-Day invasion, the Soviets were engaging 80 percent of the German Army on the Eastern Front!
And not many years later, these heros would come up with brilliant ideas such as "McNamara's 100,000". As the mother of a disabled son, that concept makes me weep...
There never was a greatest generation. Just people.
Amen, Jaye.
Sending good wishes to you.