If your friends don’t respect your right to have your own opinion, they aren’t very good friends. Your family is stuck with you (although they can “disown you” - until it’s time to pay for dad’s funeral), so you have that going for you.
It's not unethical because you are considering their feelings, which might still be bound to their naivete.
For example, my father likes Fox News and gets sucked into the team sports of pointing out how the blue guys are the bad ones. He himself does not adopt a lot of what team red believes, but he sees them as the lesser of two evils.
Every time I try to remind him that fox news reports only a part of the truth, as they too are influenced by big corporations, he gets it but then goes into a mini depression.
I can't stand to see him feel hopeless like that when it doesn't help him at all.
In fact, telling the truth in that case is a selfish need of me to make him see what I see.
It's like telling your child that Santa Claus is made up. Joe Rogan made the joke that he didn't want his kids to be the first to know, but also worried that they would be the last to figure it out, lol.
Not dishonest. I choose my battles carefully and assess people as best I can before speaking frankly. Timing and context matter greatly. I try to play a long game when it comes to persuasion and, whenever possible, I try to have something practicable to demonstrate. On rare occasions, with loved ones, I will deploy all my social capital to get something across. After that, I back off.
I like this strategy a lot. It's really hard to have discussions that are going to result in anything positive with people when they are working from a place of fear or righteousness. I am always looking for the moments where they might have a curiosity where a seed can be planted. And its hard, frustrating etc.
This is pretty much my strategy. My closest friends and family know what I think, and some of them have called me a murderer, or a conspiracy theorist. But I thought it was more important for them to know where I stand than to worry about losing their friendship.
It's the less close acquaintances that I'm more cautious about. I have been getting to know some friends of a close friend, and from hearing them talk, I know they've totally bought into the standard Covid Narrative. One of them even said (in my presence, though she didn't know I'm not jabbed), that she kicked out some house cleaners when she found out they were unjabbed. I like these people, but I can't get too close or reveal my truth without becoming a pariah and possibly harming the relationship with my close friend, who does know how I think.
dishonest, but not unethical. And I've ever been someone who needs to wear my opinions and thoughts on every issue on my sleeve. Not the way I was brought up.
It used to be impolite to discuss politics, sex and religion. There are many of us who would prefer to preserve relationships and keep these boundaries in place.
I've tried to save friends and family from getting the shots, and I was unable to save a single one. I stepped way outside of my "polite" comfort zone in order to share information that was uncomfortable and politically incendiary. Instead, I angered them and many distanced themselves from me or flat-out cut me out of their lives. My honesty backfired.
The relationship, even if it is not 100% "authentic," is important to me. So now I am focused on keeping boundaries in order to maintain and strengthen friendships. I hope that one day things will calm down, or truth may come out in a more obvious way, and we can have increasingly honest and open debates about some of these issues.
But, for now, that does not seem to be possible. I'd prefer more honesty and less concealment, but my family culture and the culture of how I grew up is what you would call "reserved." Yet, close friendships and relationships can flourish within those types of boundaries. We need each other for social reasons. Some few seem to crave isolation, but that is not normal for humanity.
I'm not concealing in order to harm anyone. I am more private and reserved in my thoughts, but I genuinely value friendships and relationships, and we do not need to agree on everything to be friends. More and more people, however, seem to want 100% agreement or they cut you out of their lives. Or worse, encourage and collude in societal shunning of certain groups of "others" who have committed the crime of wrongthink.
I hope this is temporary and we can return to being able to enjoy debating one another and remain friends, without hate, derision and dismissing one another.
These days, I continue to try to bring people together with my freedom of expression, but I am careful in what I choose to say. I do look for opportunities to point out especially that we are heading down a dark road with censorship, fact-checking, shunning, Nazi-like behaviors.
To be more precise, I used to have lively debates with friends about politics (mainly; less so about religion but also about feminism and topics of male-female differences,, just not "sex" per se) and gradually over the years I became aware that many of them were increasingly brainwashed and parroting the mainstream narrative in a reactionary way, rather than researching or thinking for themselves. These conversations became less pleasant and stimulating, and perplexingly more perilous and divisive.
And, I still haven't found a way I am comfortable with, telling dear friends that I hold a different, "unacceptable view" based on my own research and direct experience and knowledge, which is contrary to their brainwashing.
It is almost like (?) they are patients in the psych ward, and anything other than reinforcement of their delusions might cause them to go ballistic. This is what has been done to my friends by evil people -- brainwashing the population.
I want my friends back. Civil, lively discourse without censorship sounds lovely. Not happening in my circle at the moment.
Really get what you're saying. And that "100% with me or get lost" observation is really striking to me in the "anti-narrative" world. I.e., (but not the only example), "He says viruses are real. Don't have anything to do with him, period."
I expect the Woke and the vaccine zombies to cancel over a single issue, but it disturbs the hell out of me to have the "free thinkers" do the same thing. Granted, maybe I do that if the person says, "Everyone unvaccinated should be quarantined" but other than the HUGE issues, I welcome the different views. Why are people so damn closed minded?
I've noticed this, too, and it's disheartening. I'd rather see good modelling of rational debate behavior, and ask people to support their assertions with evidence. Imagine!
Comprehensive logical fallacy education might be a good first step.
I don't mind disagreement. It used to be fun, actually.
I'm playing the long game, as someone has already said. I started a new job 6 months ago and am busy building up a reputation with my colleagues as someone who is very level headed, reliable, and knowledgeable about current events.
I am gradually slipping counter narrative things into conversation.
Sometimes they look startled....because I'm a 'nice', and 'educated' (I have a PhD) lady they don't expect me to deviate from the mainstream narrative. The cognitive dissonance is good for snapping them out of the mainstream hypnosis.
But having said that, my loved ones know exactly what I think.
I think it’s unethical not to raise concerns I have about some of the narratives when I see evidence of potential harm to people -whether I am on the job or not.
Could go either way depending on the relationship. (And depends on what “hiding” means.) Not everyone can comprehend certain things, and sharing too much or too soon might scare them or make them more certain that the TV is right.
But it’s imperative to share your values and principles, which are foundational and universal. And what one should do with family and friends anyway to get to really know one another.
We all know what bodily autonomy is,
and we can talk about that. We can understand how fear can get us to do crazy things (eg stampedes). We know about the Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot, etc. Human nature hasn’t changed. We don’t need to talk about the subject at hand. There’s plenty of atrocious tales to discuss. Sharing your views is not even necessary; people can sense it.
People have to convince themselves. I can’t convince them so it’s not my burden to do so. But what’s in my control is shedding the light, opening the curtains, clearing the cobwebs and see how things go. So there’s some ethical considerations there to do something.
(Asking questions about their ethics and logical reasoning seem to help.)
I don't have any friends so it's easy for me to say yes or no, but to imagine I did have friends, I'd say; If I was asked about my opinion, I would tell them the exact truth of all the scams as I know them, again, if I
did have friends, I wouldn't go about unsolicited, thumping them on the head with my 'opinions' as the 'bible basher' is portrayed! I do however post articles forward to a few platforms where I do have several hundred 'virtual friends' or at least 'contacts', 'followers', whatever? Yah Bless <3
I think it dishonest. “Treat others as you would want to be treated.” If I ask my friend or family member for their thoughts I expect their thoughts, not some weird sugar coated facsimile.
Unethical in the SARS COVID case and others like it that involve the same outcome: life or death (or maiming). I think it our duty to give information in this situation even if it’s not solicited.
As a given, the approach to delivering information is different in each case depending on the person. But I think working to figure that out and delivering the truth is a worthwhile endeavor.
Case in point: I have friends that have information regarding the potential harm of childhood vaccines and they didn’t share their experience with me. I was ignorant and didn’t know to ask.
Hypocrite alert: these are my beliefs but I do not always perform them well. Working on unprogramming this as I believe others have said on this thread.
Thank you for posing this thought provoking question !
If you hide your opinions too much, then you are spending all your time with people you don't agree with. >> Keep the peace by being somewhere else?
It is the message in Runaway Bride - you can be so codependent that you never learn what you truly like or think for yourself - in part because you didn't know you could, and you didn't give yourself time to explore your own tastes.
I will not keep silent whatever anyone else thinks of what I have to say. I 'lost' my 2 best friends over the scamdemic and although it hurt, I do not regret it. Those that did not judge me over my opinion are still friends, they know what I think and one has already made quite clear their decision was wrong. That was enough for me to even the road. Those that still insist they were right, are no longer considered friends. They are betrayers of their own conscience, in fact, I consider them liars.
In my youth, from the mid 1960s to the early 1970s, it was a given that adults didn’t talk about religion or politics or who they even voted for. It was also common in those days to have a two party home, and for elected politicians to work across the aisle for the common good. Personally, I’m ok with my friends who have a different political opinion than myself but I could not be is a relationship with someone who politically is my polar opposite.
If your friends don’t respect your right to have your own opinion, they aren’t very good friends. Your family is stuck with you (although they can “disown you” - until it’s time to pay for dad’s funeral), so you have that going for you.
😂
So, you're saying there's a chance...
It's not unethical because you are considering their feelings, which might still be bound to their naivete.
For example, my father likes Fox News and gets sucked into the team sports of pointing out how the blue guys are the bad ones. He himself does not adopt a lot of what team red believes, but he sees them as the lesser of two evils.
Every time I try to remind him that fox news reports only a part of the truth, as they too are influenced by big corporations, he gets it but then goes into a mini depression.
I can't stand to see him feel hopeless like that when it doesn't help him at all.
In fact, telling the truth in that case is a selfish need of me to make him see what I see.
It's like telling your child that Santa Claus is made up. Joe Rogan made the joke that he didn't want his kids to be the first to know, but also worried that they would be the last to figure it out, lol.
Not dishonest. I choose my battles carefully and assess people as best I can before speaking frankly. Timing and context matter greatly. I try to play a long game when it comes to persuasion and, whenever possible, I try to have something practicable to demonstrate. On rare occasions, with loved ones, I will deploy all my social capital to get something across. After that, I back off.
This sounds pragmatic.
I like this strategy a lot. It's really hard to have discussions that are going to result in anything positive with people when they are working from a place of fear or righteousness. I am always looking for the moments where they might have a curiosity where a seed can be planted. And its hard, frustrating etc.
This is pretty much my strategy. My closest friends and family know what I think, and some of them have called me a murderer, or a conspiracy theorist. But I thought it was more important for them to know where I stand than to worry about losing their friendship.
It's the less close acquaintances that I'm more cautious about. I have been getting to know some friends of a close friend, and from hearing them talk, I know they've totally bought into the standard Covid Narrative. One of them even said (in my presence, though she didn't know I'm not jabbed), that she kicked out some house cleaners when she found out they were unjabbed. I like these people, but I can't get too close or reveal my truth without becoming a pariah and possibly harming the relationship with my close friend, who does know how I think.
dishonest, but not unethical. And I've ever been someone who needs to wear my opinions and thoughts on every issue on my sleeve. Not the way I was brought up.
It used to be impolite to discuss politics, sex and religion. There are many of us who would prefer to preserve relationships and keep these boundaries in place.
I've tried to save friends and family from getting the shots, and I was unable to save a single one. I stepped way outside of my "polite" comfort zone in order to share information that was uncomfortable and politically incendiary. Instead, I angered them and many distanced themselves from me or flat-out cut me out of their lives. My honesty backfired.
The relationship, even if it is not 100% "authentic," is important to me. So now I am focused on keeping boundaries in order to maintain and strengthen friendships. I hope that one day things will calm down, or truth may come out in a more obvious way, and we can have increasingly honest and open debates about some of these issues.
But, for now, that does not seem to be possible. I'd prefer more honesty and less concealment, but my family culture and the culture of how I grew up is what you would call "reserved." Yet, close friendships and relationships can flourish within those types of boundaries. We need each other for social reasons. Some few seem to crave isolation, but that is not normal for humanity.
I'm not concealing in order to harm anyone. I am more private and reserved in my thoughts, but I genuinely value friendships and relationships, and we do not need to agree on everything to be friends. More and more people, however, seem to want 100% agreement or they cut you out of their lives. Or worse, encourage and collude in societal shunning of certain groups of "others" who have committed the crime of wrongthink.
I hope this is temporary and we can return to being able to enjoy debating one another and remain friends, without hate, derision and dismissing one another.
These days, I continue to try to bring people together with my freedom of expression, but I am careful in what I choose to say. I do look for opportunities to point out especially that we are heading down a dark road with censorship, fact-checking, shunning, Nazi-like behaviors.
I used to follow that rule about not discussing politics religion with family and friends. I enforced this rule at my dinner table.
Well, now I’m not so sure. Who came up with this? Why? Who didn’t want to hear what they disagreed with and had the power to invent this rule?
For the first time, there’s no censorship in my house. I ask questions and expect civil and lively discussions.
No rules; just right! (Thanks Outback Steakhouse)
To be more precise, I used to have lively debates with friends about politics (mainly; less so about religion but also about feminism and topics of male-female differences,, just not "sex" per se) and gradually over the years I became aware that many of them were increasingly brainwashed and parroting the mainstream narrative in a reactionary way, rather than researching or thinking for themselves. These conversations became less pleasant and stimulating, and perplexingly more perilous and divisive.
And, I still haven't found a way I am comfortable with, telling dear friends that I hold a different, "unacceptable view" based on my own research and direct experience and knowledge, which is contrary to their brainwashing.
It is almost like (?) they are patients in the psych ward, and anything other than reinforcement of their delusions might cause them to go ballistic. This is what has been done to my friends by evil people -- brainwashing the population.
I want my friends back. Civil, lively discourse without censorship sounds lovely. Not happening in my circle at the moment.
Really get what you're saying. And that "100% with me or get lost" observation is really striking to me in the "anti-narrative" world. I.e., (but not the only example), "He says viruses are real. Don't have anything to do with him, period."
I expect the Woke and the vaccine zombies to cancel over a single issue, but it disturbs the hell out of me to have the "free thinkers" do the same thing. Granted, maybe I do that if the person says, "Everyone unvaccinated should be quarantined" but other than the HUGE issues, I welcome the different views. Why are people so damn closed minded?
I've noticed this, too, and it's disheartening. I'd rather see good modelling of rational debate behavior, and ask people to support their assertions with evidence. Imagine!
Comprehensive logical fallacy education might be a good first step.
I don't mind disagreement. It used to be fun, actually.
Unethical? No.
I'm playing the long game, as someone has already said. I started a new job 6 months ago and am busy building up a reputation with my colleagues as someone who is very level headed, reliable, and knowledgeable about current events.
I am gradually slipping counter narrative things into conversation.
Sometimes they look startled....because I'm a 'nice', and 'educated' (I have a PhD) lady they don't expect me to deviate from the mainstream narrative. The cognitive dissonance is good for snapping them out of the mainstream hypnosis.
But having said that, my loved ones know exactly what I think.
I wait until asked. And then try to be tactful. People can’t see what they can’t see. Questions work better than statements
So true! People can’t see what they can’t see. And again, asking questions has helped open up that can of worms for but a few around me.
Thanks for the platform!
Verses that comes to me are Eph 4:15 -‘speaking the truth in love’ and Matt 7:12 ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’.
Hiding something is dishonest, in my opinion.
If someone is opening up a subject then there should be the space to openly discuss the topic. as a healthcare professional,
...Oops
I think it’s unethical not to raise concerns I have about some of the narratives when I see evidence of potential harm to people -whether I am on the job or not.
Could go either way depending on the relationship. (And depends on what “hiding” means.) Not everyone can comprehend certain things, and sharing too much or too soon might scare them or make them more certain that the TV is right.
But it’s imperative to share your values and principles, which are foundational and universal. And what one should do with family and friends anyway to get to really know one another.
We all know what bodily autonomy is,
and we can talk about that. We can understand how fear can get us to do crazy things (eg stampedes). We know about the Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot, etc. Human nature hasn’t changed. We don’t need to talk about the subject at hand. There’s plenty of atrocious tales to discuss. Sharing your views is not even necessary; people can sense it.
People have to convince themselves. I can’t convince them so it’s not my burden to do so. But what’s in my control is shedding the light, opening the curtains, clearing the cobwebs and see how things go. So there’s some ethical considerations there to do something.
(Asking questions about their ethics and logical reasoning seem to help.)
I don't have any friends so it's easy for me to say yes or no, but to imagine I did have friends, I'd say; If I was asked about my opinion, I would tell them the exact truth of all the scams as I know them, again, if I
did have friends, I wouldn't go about unsolicited, thumping them on the head with my 'opinions' as the 'bible basher' is portrayed! I do however post articles forward to a few platforms where I do have several hundred 'virtual friends' or at least 'contacts', 'followers', whatever? Yah Bless <3
I think it dishonest. “Treat others as you would want to be treated.” If I ask my friend or family member for their thoughts I expect their thoughts, not some weird sugar coated facsimile.
Unethical in the SARS COVID case and others like it that involve the same outcome: life or death (or maiming). I think it our duty to give information in this situation even if it’s not solicited.
As a given, the approach to delivering information is different in each case depending on the person. But I think working to figure that out and delivering the truth is a worthwhile endeavor.
Case in point: I have friends that have information regarding the potential harm of childhood vaccines and they didn’t share their experience with me. I was ignorant and didn’t know to ask.
Hypocrite alert: these are my beliefs but I do not always perform them well. Working on unprogramming this as I believe others have said on this thread.
Thank you for posing this thought provoking question !
If you hide your opinions too much, then you are spending all your time with people you don't agree with. >> Keep the peace by being somewhere else?
It is the message in Runaway Bride - you can be so codependent that you never learn what you truly like or think for yourself - in part because you didn't know you could, and you didn't give yourself time to explore your own tastes.
I will not keep silent whatever anyone else thinks of what I have to say. I 'lost' my 2 best friends over the scamdemic and although it hurt, I do not regret it. Those that did not judge me over my opinion are still friends, they know what I think and one has already made quite clear their decision was wrong. That was enough for me to even the road. Those that still insist they were right, are no longer considered friends. They are betrayers of their own conscience, in fact, I consider them liars.
Rather than repeat what my esteemed co-subscribers have already said (and I agree with all of you) I will just post one of my cartoons on the subject.
https://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=131537
In my youth, from the mid 1960s to the early 1970s, it was a given that adults didn’t talk about religion or politics or who they even voted for. It was also common in those days to have a two party home, and for elected politicians to work across the aisle for the common good. Personally, I’m ok with my friends who have a different political opinion than myself but I could not be is a relationship with someone who politically is my polar opposite.
Oh Mickey, my comments and opinions are well known amongst the few friends I have left, as well as my family and extended family.
😂
But if the question was is it unethical to keep my knowledge and opinions to myself?
I feel it's my moral duty not to.
Yes, because I believe it is unethical to uphold illusion of consensus and staying silent is the equivalent.