I think it is bad, if people who are homeless (and therefore most poor) cannot try and make some money dancing or making music in the street or subway. Of course the assaults are bad. But there should have been help some way or another for a poor man like that, so he need not end up dead by someone (probably much better off) than he was.
activists seem to be active at the wrong time. If they had helped this man when he needed it this would not have happened. I hope there is more than one person llike you helping the homeless get back to a safer life
Mickey Z - please be careful when riding the Metro or walking the city streets. It’s getting pretty rough outside. And sadly I don’t see things getting better any time soon.
Thanks, Jeff. I genuinely appreciate your concern.
Side note: I survived NYC in the 90s. For context, there were 488 murders here in 2021. In 1990, there were 2,605 murders in the Big Apple. From 1990 to 1994, NYC averaged over 2,000 murders per year!
A sad situation in that an obviously disturbed man was not getting any help and allowed to harm innocent people. With cops leaving in droves because somehow they are the bad guys, so not enough of them to maintain order. Past that, even if they do arrest people, the Soros backed DA has an agenda of creating chaos.
Thank you, David, for your insightful comment! Today, many often forget that everyday citizens have rights, too. If a disturbed individual succeeded in murdering innocents, I'm sure any outspoken people calling for stricter measures would be pilloried for not having enough sympathy for the disturbed.
I disagree with you here, Mickey. The ex-Marine put 130-pound Jordan into a choke hold for HOW long? To stop exactly WHAT from happening? And then another passenger or two kneeled on Jordan? (Maybe I have that wrong, hopefully. ) I too believe in self-defense. But like me, you know all too well that when the adrenaline kicks in emotions leading to really bad decisions take over. And then when I read the dozens of utterly racist comments -- each one feeding off the prior one -- on the twitter thread you linked to, that really colors the issue for me (double meaning intended). And below the good-hearted Ingrid is blaming "activists" for not doing more for homeless people. Yea, liberals suck (which is why I'm a radical, not a liberal), but for the most part protesters are not liberals, they care about people and have indeed taken on many social causes, putting their own bodies in jeopardy. IF the Marine intervened for good reason, fine -- let's hear it. Clearly something ticked him off. But no matter what, it's just NOT ok for anyone, police officer or regular person, to go around killing people, let alone on the basis of something "ticking you off". And in most (not all) everyday situations, training in creative interventions works to de-escalate a situation, not military training where a disagreeable person is turned into the enemy.
Well, as an "activist" all my life (whatever the word "activist" means!) -- and YOU as well -- I suppose you really mean liberal politicians or FBI provocateurs or somesuch. What did the Marine say were his "reasons" for killing Jordan? Was Jordan physically threatening anyone? As someone who spent many decades selling my poetry on the subways, I mostly created a good rapport with passengers and was careful not to be seen as harassing anyone. And yet a few times I could see trouble brewing, so I'd walk away from verbal taunts that threatened to turn physically violent. The several occasions I saw Jordan performing, he was pretty joyful and funny, and not threatening at all. So I'd like to hear from the Marine here.
I'm not gonna comment on the inner motivations or general personalities of Neely or the Marine. It feels like useless speculation.
As for "activism," I am NOT talking about the obvious list you offer. It took me a while to recognize that what we call "activism" (all across the ideological spectrum) is a sham that keeps the "system" alive. I've written volumes on this so please understand that I'm not gonna go too deeply into it again now.
And, most of the things you've written are great ... including the chapter in my book, "What is Direct Action?" True, that was 10 years ago, but your writings and talks really inspired me. So thank you for that!
I'm sure I saw him...I lived in NYC for most of my adult life and rode the subways all the time, I remember many good dancers, impressionists, musicians busking (and actually went out with one!), I always tried to give money. Poor Neely. But yes, the predictable "divide & conquer" use of his death by people like AOC and activists(TM) is abhorrent. Ingrid nailed it: Why weren't they helping him when he needed it? Answer: because they don't give a flying rat's ass until they can score some virtue points.
I hope general awareness will rise soon, after this case and George Floyd's case, about how dangerous chokeholds are and consequently what degree of responsibility a person assumes by deciding that they are going to use a chokehold on another human being, and by assessing when and to what degree they have to relent the hold.
That is definitely one of the many issues highlighted by this recent incident. For starters, if the Powers That Shouldn't Be actually cared enough to do so, law enforcement agencies from coast to coast need a drastic overhaul in how they are trained.
Or, maybe police should not be called where no weapons or serious threats are presented. Money should be diverted from police budgets to train social workers and psychologists to instead talk to non-violent individuals in trouble. I remember back in April 1976 when the brilliant antiwar troubadour, Phil Ochs, was having a very difficult time psychologically and went to NY City health services to get psychological help. The mother of a childhood friend of mine who worked there interviewed Phil, saw he was in trouble, and tried to expedite social services, but not quick enough. A few days later Phil hung himself at his Sister's house in Rockaway. Acts of physical violence are rarely helpful or needed in protecting one's self or others. And once you start, as I wrote, the adrenaline takes over and you make wrong decisions. That's why those TRAINED in martial arts (like you, Mickey) are in better control of themselves and their emotions. When I was assaulted and mugged by 3 early teens at the Bay 50th subway station some years ago, I realized I could easily flip one of the kids holding me from behind while another punched me in the stomach, and the third, a young woman, served as their lookout. Instead, my attitude was one more of incredulity, as I had just come off the train at 1 a.m. after an evening of "selling" my poems on it, and I was still wearing my "Buy a Poem" sign. I remember consciously assessing it all, seeing there was no weapon, and so allowed myself to take the punch without fighting back and dropped to the ground. Two ran, and one tried to pull of my sneakers. I looked at him and, from the ground, just started laughing -- which freaked him out. "Why are you laughing?" he yelled. My response: "You really want those sneakers? Take a good look at them," holes in the bottom. Some sudden awareness of the absurdity, I guess, clicked in his head. He looked, I thought he was about to start crying (he was a kid, for goddsakes!), he mumbled "Sorry," and ran off. Eventually the cops came, they were actually great (given that I was still wearing my poetry sign and a "Free Mumia" button, and bleeding a little. And wanted to drive around looking for them, which is not something I wanted to do, to wreck a kid's life (even though they were obviously dead wrong). And what if I picked out the wrong kids, in my confusion, which happens a lot? So the cops just drove me home -- really nice of them. I actually have lots of stories like that one, as I used to ride the subways at all hours of day and night ....
Let's also remember here Eric Garner, killed by a NYC cop, Daniel Pantaleo, on Staten Island in 2014 who put Garner in a choke hold -- for doing NOTHING. (selling loose cigarettes?) . And other cops didn't intervene. Eric's final words, "I can't breathe," became a national travesty.
The reports of the mental illness, drug use and violence (particularly against a 67 year old lady) make me think that in recent years he was a danger to others and probably himself.
Not that that justifies someone throttling him.
I know asylums have a bad reputation, but there really needs to be a place for very disturbed people to be looked after.
Good question and I'd have to ponder more. Off the top of my head, I'd say it wasn't rare in my youth but not nearly as common as it is now. When I was a kid sneaking on the trains, it felt far more likely to encounter a garden-variety criminal than someone who was (to use your term) floridly psychotic.
Thanks for speaking up and adding your voice borne of first hand experience to this situation. Truly it is tragic on so many levels which you comment on so artfully and succinctly. Weaponizing these events not helpful.
I think it is bad, if people who are homeless (and therefore most poor) cannot try and make some money dancing or making music in the street or subway. Of course the assaults are bad. But there should have been help some way or another for a poor man like that, so he need not end up dead by someone (probably much better off) than he was.
I concur. Even with just basic details known, this story is bad on more levels than I could list here.
And to see the "activists" out to exploit his death is as despicable as ever.
activists seem to be active at the wrong time. If they had helped this man when he needed it this would not have happened. I hope there is more than one person llike you helping the homeless get back to a safer life
Bingo: "activists seem to be active at the wrong time" (doing the wrong things)
Mickey Z - please be careful when riding the Metro or walking the city streets. It’s getting pretty rough outside. And sadly I don’t see things getting better any time soon.
Thanks, Jeff. I genuinely appreciate your concern.
Side note: I survived NYC in the 90s. For context, there were 488 murders here in 2021. In 1990, there were 2,605 murders in the Big Apple. From 1990 to 1994, NYC averaged over 2,000 murders per year!
A sad situation in that an obviously disturbed man was not getting any help and allowed to harm innocent people. With cops leaving in droves because somehow they are the bad guys, so not enough of them to maintain order. Past that, even if they do arrest people, the Soros backed DA has an agenda of creating chaos.
Well said, David. As long as these trends continue, there are no winners - except the Parasite Class™.
Thank you, David, for your insightful comment! Today, many often forget that everyday citizens have rights, too. If a disturbed individual succeeded in murdering innocents, I'm sure any outspoken people calling for stricter measures would be pilloried for not having enough sympathy for the disturbed.
I disagree with you here, Mickey. The ex-Marine put 130-pound Jordan into a choke hold for HOW long? To stop exactly WHAT from happening? And then another passenger or two kneeled on Jordan? (Maybe I have that wrong, hopefully. ) I too believe in self-defense. But like me, you know all too well that when the adrenaline kicks in emotions leading to really bad decisions take over. And then when I read the dozens of utterly racist comments -- each one feeding off the prior one -- on the twitter thread you linked to, that really colors the issue for me (double meaning intended). And below the good-hearted Ingrid is blaming "activists" for not doing more for homeless people. Yea, liberals suck (which is why I'm a radical, not a liberal), but for the most part protesters are not liberals, they care about people and have indeed taken on many social causes, putting their own bodies in jeopardy. IF the Marine intervened for good reason, fine -- let's hear it. Clearly something ticked him off. But no matter what, it's just NOT ok for anyone, police officer or regular person, to go around killing people, let alone on the basis of something "ticking you off". And in most (not all) everyday situations, training in creative interventions works to de-escalate a situation, not military training where a disagreeable person is turned into the enemy.
Thanks, Mitchel...but what exactly did I write that you're disagreeing with?
You wrote a put down of "activists": "And to see the "activists" out to exploit his death is as despicable as ever."
Thanks for clarifying.
I stand by that opinion. Hard-earned, as you know.
Well, as an "activist" all my life (whatever the word "activist" means!) -- and YOU as well -- I suppose you really mean liberal politicians or FBI provocateurs or somesuch. What did the Marine say were his "reasons" for killing Jordan? Was Jordan physically threatening anyone? As someone who spent many decades selling my poetry on the subways, I mostly created a good rapport with passengers and was careful not to be seen as harassing anyone. And yet a few times I could see trouble brewing, so I'd walk away from verbal taunts that threatened to turn physically violent. The several occasions I saw Jordan performing, he was pretty joyful and funny, and not threatening at all. So I'd like to hear from the Marine here.
I'm not gonna comment on the inner motivations or general personalities of Neely or the Marine. It feels like useless speculation.
As for "activism," I am NOT talking about the obvious list you offer. It took me a while to recognize that what we call "activism" (all across the ideological spectrum) is a sham that keeps the "system" alive. I've written volumes on this so please understand that I'm not gonna go too deeply into it again now.
And, most of the things you've written are great ... including the chapter in my book, "What is Direct Action?" True, that was 10 years ago, but your writings and talks really inspired me. So thank you for that!
I'm sure I saw him...I lived in NYC for most of my adult life and rode the subways all the time, I remember many good dancers, impressionists, musicians busking (and actually went out with one!), I always tried to give money. Poor Neely. But yes, the predictable "divide & conquer" use of his death by people like AOC and activists(TM) is abhorrent. Ingrid nailed it: Why weren't they helping him when he needed it? Answer: because they don't give a flying rat's ass until they can score some virtue points.
Yes, he was ubiquitous. And this time, you nailed it: "Activists" don't give a flying rat's ass until they can score some virtue points.
P.S. I may have seen a flying rat or two in the subways!
ha! me too! especially 2d ave F station...
🐀🐀🐀🐀
I hope general awareness will rise soon, after this case and George Floyd's case, about how dangerous chokeholds are and consequently what degree of responsibility a person assumes by deciding that they are going to use a chokehold on another human being, and by assessing when and to what degree they have to relent the hold.
That is definitely one of the many issues highlighted by this recent incident. For starters, if the Powers That Shouldn't Be actually cared enough to do so, law enforcement agencies from coast to coast need a drastic overhaul in how they are trained.
Or, maybe police should not be called where no weapons or serious threats are presented. Money should be diverted from police budgets to train social workers and psychologists to instead talk to non-violent individuals in trouble. I remember back in April 1976 when the brilliant antiwar troubadour, Phil Ochs, was having a very difficult time psychologically and went to NY City health services to get psychological help. The mother of a childhood friend of mine who worked there interviewed Phil, saw he was in trouble, and tried to expedite social services, but not quick enough. A few days later Phil hung himself at his Sister's house in Rockaway. Acts of physical violence are rarely helpful or needed in protecting one's self or others. And once you start, as I wrote, the adrenaline takes over and you make wrong decisions. That's why those TRAINED in martial arts (like you, Mickey) are in better control of themselves and their emotions. When I was assaulted and mugged by 3 early teens at the Bay 50th subway station some years ago, I realized I could easily flip one of the kids holding me from behind while another punched me in the stomach, and the third, a young woman, served as their lookout. Instead, my attitude was one more of incredulity, as I had just come off the train at 1 a.m. after an evening of "selling" my poems on it, and I was still wearing my "Buy a Poem" sign. I remember consciously assessing it all, seeing there was no weapon, and so allowed myself to take the punch without fighting back and dropped to the ground. Two ran, and one tried to pull of my sneakers. I looked at him and, from the ground, just started laughing -- which freaked him out. "Why are you laughing?" he yelled. My response: "You really want those sneakers? Take a good look at them," holes in the bottom. Some sudden awareness of the absurdity, I guess, clicked in his head. He looked, I thought he was about to start crying (he was a kid, for goddsakes!), he mumbled "Sorry," and ran off. Eventually the cops came, they were actually great (given that I was still wearing my poetry sign and a "Free Mumia" button, and bleeding a little. And wanted to drive around looking for them, which is not something I wanted to do, to wreck a kid's life (even though they were obviously dead wrong). And what if I picked out the wrong kids, in my confusion, which happens a lot? So the cops just drove me home -- really nice of them. I actually have lots of stories like that one, as I used to ride the subways at all hours of day and night ....
Let's also remember here Eric Garner, killed by a NYC cop, Daniel Pantaleo, on Staten Island in 2014 who put Garner in a choke hold -- for doing NOTHING. (selling loose cigarettes?) . And other cops didn't intervene. Eric's final words, "I can't breathe," became a national travesty.
As usual a balanced perspective by Mickey Z.
Thanks for reading and for your kind words.
The reports of the mental illness, drug use and violence (particularly against a 67 year old lady) make me think that in recent years he was a danger to others and probably himself.
Not that that justifies someone throttling him.
I know asylums have a bad reputation, but there really needs to be a place for very disturbed people to be looked after.
Indeed. From my interactions with homeless, I know how little services are provided.
When did it become normal to see floridly psychotic people causing a scene on public transport, i wonder?
I bet it wasn't an everyday occurence when you were a kid.
Good question and I'd have to ponder more. Off the top of my head, I'd say it wasn't rare in my youth but not nearly as common as it is now. When I was a kid sneaking on the trains, it felt far more likely to encounter a garden-variety criminal than someone who was (to use your term) floridly psychotic.
Thanks for speaking up and adding your voice borne of first hand experience to this situation. Truly it is tragic on so many levels which you comment on so artfully and succinctly. Weaponizing these events not helpful.
Thank you! 🙏
Hey Mickey - this story has me wondering if the Guardian Angels are still around NYC? Also curious if you think they are/were a good thing or not?
Hello and yes, they're still around: https://guardianangels.org
I like the concept in theory. As for their practical effectiveness, I genuinely don't know.